Episode 23 - What Every Woman Needs to Know About Breast Cancer Risks & Estrogen with Dr. Jenn Simmons, MD

In this episode, Dr. Jenn Simmons takes us on a transformative journey from breast cancer surgeon to integrative oncologist, driven by personal loss and her own health crisis. Discover how functional medicine reshaped her approach to cancer and revealed the powerful links between inflammation, environmental factors, and disease.

Dr. Simmons challenges conventional breast cancer screening methods, offering bold alternatives like self-exams and lesser-known techniques. She also shares her controversial stance on hormone replacement therapy. As she prepares to speak at The Beljanski Integrative Cancer Conference, Dr. Simmons continues to advocate for a more holistic, personalized approach to cancer care.

Tune in for a conversation that could change the way you think about health and healing.

Episode Highlights:
• Dr. Simmons' journey to integrative oncology 🌱
• Functional medicine in cancer treatment 💊
• Rethinking breast cancer screening 🔍
• Alternative screening methods 🌿
• Hormone replacement therapy insights ⚖️

► You can also tune in our Podcast Page: https://www.beljanski.org/beljanski-cancer-talk-show/episode-23-what-every-woman-needs-to-know-about-breast-cancer-risks-estrogen-with-dr-jenn-simmons-md/

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Chapters

• 1:02 Teaser
• 1:17 Prologue
• 1:51 Introduction & Mission
• 4:04 Personal Journey with Breast Cancer
• 8:48 Shift to Functional Medicine
• 13:45 Ad: Womabel® - an exceptional dietary supplement specially designed for women to support overall health and wellness
• 19:03 Rethinking Conventional Screening
• 25:41 Alternative Screening Methods
• 29:30 Hormone Replacement Therapy
• 37:56 Conclusion & Contact Information

Transcript

What Every Woman Needs to Know About Breast Cancer Risks & Estrogen with Dr. Jen Simmons, MD

Teaser

Dr. Jenn Simmons: The tumor is not the problem. The tumor is the symptom of the problem.

Prologue

Victor Dwyer: Hey, everyone! Welcome to today's episode of The Beljanski Cancer Talk Show!  Today, we're thrilled to welcome Dr. Jenn Simmons, a breast cancer surgeon turned integrative oncologist who is revolutionizing how we approach breast cancer. 

Her bestselling book, “The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer,” is changing the lives of women worldwide.

With the launch of her perfeQTion Imaging Center, she's introducing a pain-free, radiation-free way to screen for breast cancer.

Introduction and Mission

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Sylvie, I'm so happy to be here today and thank you for asking me to participate and especially thank you for asking me to participate in the conference because for those of you that don't know me, I'm Dr. Jenn Simmons. I am a breast cancer surgeon turned integrative oncologist and I am on a mission to change how we diagnose how we treat and how we screen for breast cancer.

Because we are in a time when we have to be so much more mindful of how people are being diagnosed, of how people are being treated. And people need options. They need to know what their options are in order to be able to make informed decisions. And what I'm so excited about for the conference is that we have the opportunity to have so many like minded people together to help guide people to make the right decisions for them because cancer is a very individual experience and it should be treated individually. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Look, Dr Jen, we are absolutely delighted with the prospect of having you. As you know, The Beljanski Foundation is currently running a big experiment with Kansas University Medical Center on breast cancer with some specific plant extracts that are known to inhibit the development of cancer stem cells.

So, I think there will be a lot of people at The Beljanski Integrative Conference interested in breast cancer, and I know that your presentation is probably going to be one of the highlights of this conference. You said, I mean, you are an integrative oncologist. You are a breast cancer surgeon, but you also you had your own journey with your own sickness that opened you to a new experience, a new dimension of the experience of what it is to face the disease and overcome it. Could you tell us a little bit more about your own experience and what it meant?

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Of course. 

Personal Journey with Breast Cancer

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Sylvie, we come to this space because we have a pain to purpose experience and because it often takes significant, significant pain in order to make someone see a different perspective, in order to make someone change the way that they've been doing things or the way that they've been understanding things for decades.

So, for me, I was born into a breast cancer family. I literally don't remember a time in my life where I didn't know about breast cancer because it was absolutely part of the fabric, the tapestry of our family. And nearly every woman in my family got breast cancer. And most of them got breast cancer and died of breast cancer. There were not survivors in my family.

And when I was growing up, I had a first cousin. Her name was Linda Creed. She was a singer songwriter in the 1970s and 1980s. She wrote all the music for, I'm going to age myself right now, she wrote all the music for The Spinners and The Stylistics. She was the queen of Motown sound in Philadelphia.

She was beautiful, brilliant, larger than life, lit up the room when she walked in. She wrote 54 hits in her career, and her most famous song was “The Greatest Love of All”. So, she wrote that song in 1977 as the title track to the movie “The Greatest,” starring Muhammad Ali. But it really received its acclaim in March of 1986, when Whitney Houston would release that song to the world.

And at that time, it would spend 14 weeks at the top of the charts. Only my cousin Linda would never know. Because Linda died of metastatic breast cancer at the age of 37, one month after Whitney released that song. I was 16 years old and my hero died. And despite the fact that it's been decades since this happened, I can't tell the story without bringing tears to my eyes.

Because I never wanted another woman, another community, another family to have to suffer the way that mine sufferred. And her life and ultimately her death gave birth to my life's purpose and I did the only thing I knew how to do. I became a doctor. I became a surgeon. I became the first fellowship trained breast surgeon in Philadelphia. I became the first oncoplastic surgeon in Pennsylvania. I ran the cancer program for my hospital and I did that really, really well for a long time.

I did it long enough for my aunt to be diagnosed. I did it long enough for my mother to be diagnosed. And for my part, I saw the writing on the walls. And I was about 15 years into my career. Seemingly on top of the world and invincible. And I go from being probably one of the most high performing people that you've ever met to I literally can't walk across the room because I don't have the breath in my body.

And I have a very intensive three day workup. And at the end of those three days, I find myself in the office of my friend and colleague and physician. And he tells me that I need surgery and chemo, and radiation, and I'm going to be on lifelong medication. And despite the fact that these are things that I said all day, every day, without hesitation or reservation, when those words are coming at you, I assure you they have different meaning.

And despite the fact that I was fully immersed in the conventional medical system, there was a voice that I could not quiet in my head telling me that there was something more, go find it. And despite the fact that I refused treatment and was told by my doctor the same exact thing that I had told thousands of women before, because thousands of women asked me what will happen if I don't treat my cancer?

And I told them they would die of their disease. And that's exactly what my friend told me, “Jen, you're gonna die of your disease.” And yet I couldn't quiet that voice that told me that there was something more and go find it. 

Transition to Functional Medicine

Dr. Jenn Simmons: And so, I was very fortunate because God is great that very early on in my journey to, to find my, to recover my health, I was sitting in a lecture room and this tall lanky guy walks on stage with a big toothy grin, and he introduces himself as a functional medicine physician.

Now, despite the fact that I am trying to find answers, I’m still very cynical. I’m a doctor for about 20 years at this point, and all I can think of is like, “What is this quack talking about? Right? There's no such thing as a functional medicine physician.” And then I remember that I'm sick and I'm there for a reason. So, I checked my ego at the door, stopped listening to that snooty booty person who, who is so closed off and I tune in to what he's saying, and thank God I did, because it turns out this quack was Dr. Mark Hyman. And what Dr. Hyman was going to say over the next two hours would not only telescope how I was going to heal, but he was also going to lay the foundation for how I was going to heal the world. Because what I learned in that space and time is that, especially in the world of cancer, all our focus is on the tumor.

But the tumor is not the problem. The tumor is the symptom of the problem. And unless we figure out our why, unless we course correct, unless we do the things to build health, there's nothing stopping from that tumor coming back or the next manifestation of the disease. Because it's either a recurrence, or it's heart disease, or it's dementia, or it's osteoporosis, or it's high blood pressure.

It's all of these manifestations of chronic disease. that all come back to inflammation. And unless you solve that problem, unless you help people to understand where the inflammation is coming from, where the imbalance is coming from, unless you help them to understand what cancer is, which is a normal response to an abnormal environment, and unless we can help people to make this environmental shift, then we're not helping them.

So, my diagnosis was an opportunity. It was an opportunity for me to take those blinders off that I wore for 20-some years and see the landscape for what it is. And when I did that, I was not only able to cure myself and heal myself, which I assure you was not easy and was not quick, and telling the story from this end of it is very easy because I got a lot worse before I got better.

And I should have gotten help and didn't get help and tried to do way too much on my own. But, everything that I did got me to here. Everything that I did got me to immerse myself in the study of functional medicine, got me to be curious again, and not be so certain that I know everything, and be open to possibilities, and to alternate modalities that all contribute to health.

Because at the end of the day, that's what we need to do. That's what we needed to build. And so, it got to the point for me where I no longer felt helpful remaining as a surgeon, because as a surgeon, really, I was just taking people over a bridge from one place to the other without correcting any, any sort of journey that they were on.

And there's really no room in that conventional medical system to help people to heal because, you know, quite frankly, and I understand the dilemma from the hospital's perspective, but, you know, they were paying me to operate. They weren't paying me to talk to people about how they're eating and what they're drinking and how they're moving and how they're thinking and how they're sleeping and what their environment is like and where the toxins are and detoxification and all of these things.

They're not, they're not paying me to do that. And they don't want to, right?

Sylvie Beljanski: Yeah. All Western medicine is based on quick fixes and, and and not on the addressing the underlying causes. So as a doctor, how has this discovery of functional medicine changed your practice and what are you doing with your patients nowadays?

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Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, so it has entirely changed my practice. So I left surgery in 2019 and I founded RealHealthMD, which is a 100% virtual practice that helps women anywhere along their breast cancer journey to permanent, really recover their health and live the life that they want and desire. But of course that takes a lot of motivation and not everyone wants that.

So, there are many, many people who want the pill, who want the procedure, who don't want to take personal responsibility, who just want to do this quick thing and move on, right? Not realizing that that is the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. But for the person that is motivated, that wants to recover their health, that is ready to kind of own that space and take responsibility, the possibilities are endless.

And the people that I work with, that I help to get to the root cause of their illness, that I help them to create this environment of joy and change them from the chemistry of stress to the chemistry of joy. For these people, they have an opportunity. to be healthier after their breast cancer than they ever were before.

And to live a life filled with joy and purpose and meaning and feel really good physically, emotionally, spiritually, because in the end, that's what this is about. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Absolutely. Are you still performing surgeries or is it something that you are not doing anymore? 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm not, but I'm not, I want to be clear that I'm not against surgery, right?

It just is not the path for me because it's too small for me. My mission is too big to be stuck in an operating room helping one person. And I can argue that I'm not sure we're helping everyone who we bring to the operating room. Now, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I am not saying that there's not a place or a time for Western medicine, there is certainly.

And if you are someone who has an overwhelming tumor burden, then maybe surgery is appropriate for you because maybe your body needs that help to get rid of some of that tumor volume. So, that when you awaken the immune system, because so many people, suffer from an immune system that is just not able to handle that cancer because an intact immune system should be able to stop cancer in its infancy, right?

But so often we don't give it the opportunity to do that and people don't even know how to awaken their immune system. But there are people whose immune system is overwhelmed by tumor volume and, in that case, if surgery helps them, great! There are people who have a lot of systemic disease that surgery can't help them, and in those cases, maybe chemotherapy is appropriate, right?

But all of those modalities have to be accompanied by the things that the integrative people talk about all day, they have to be accompanied by diet, by drinking clean and purified water, by movement, by mindset, by stress reduction, by detoxification, by cleaning out your environment, by purpose driven living, by connection.

All of these things end up mattering so much more than they're ever given credit for in the realm of conventional medicine. So, is there a place for conventional medicine? Yes, there is a place for it, but it cannot be the only thing. It cannot. There is no path to health if that's all you're doing because cancer is not a surgery deficiency, it's not a chemotherapy deficiency, and it's not a radiation deficiency.

And no one ever got healthier from a surgery, from chemotherapy, or from radiation. 

Critique of Conventional Breast Cancer Screening

Sylvie Beljanski: And speaking of radiation, I mean, your interest, your deep dive into inflammation as a cause of cancer led you to question the repeated radio, radiology on the healthy breast and the effect of those repeated mammograms.

Can you tell us more about that? 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, absolutely. And, you know, this is not my opinion, and I am not unique in this stance. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Absolutely, there are a lot of studies going, I mean, support that

Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, you know, the Cochrane Report was reported in, you know, the early 2000s, and they looked at the Swedish experience. The Cochrane Report is probably the biggest independent medical research organization.

And what they looked at was 600,000 women, and 300,000 were screened with mammograms, 300,000 were not. And what they found is that the same exact number of women die, die of breast cancer in each group. And what happens with the mammographic population is that they just get more cancers. 20 to 30 percent more cancers, and these are almost certainly cancers that were either caused by the mammogram because, you know, I understand that the American College of Radiology stance is that mammograms are safe and that they are low levels of radiation.

Victor Dwyer:. Can you explain what a mammogram is? Sorry for the dumb question. 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, no, it's fine. 

Sylvie Beljanski: For the men who are listening to the podcast

Dr. Jenn Simmons: A mammogram is an x-ray of the breast. Despite the fact that we've given it this lovely name, picture of the breast mammogram.

It is an x-ray of the breast and it's an x-ray of the breast that is performed while the breast is being compressed to a fraction of its size. So, picture putting the breast in a panini press, and then radiating it, because that is exactly what's happening. So, there is trauma to the tissue, damage to the tissue, physical trauma to the tissue.

And then at the same time, we are delivering radiation in order to penetrate the breast tissue and create an image. And the denser your breast is and the larger your breast is, the more radiation you get during the mammogram. So, despite the fact that we are told by the, by the American College of Radiology, by the radiologists that work for the American College of Radiology, despite the fact that we are told that they're safe, in every single other arena, when we talk about radiation, we talk about it as a known carcinogen.

This is no exception. Radiation causes cancer. It's undeniable. It's indisputable. And what happens is that their cells are directly damaged by the radiation and it creates an environment that is hostile. And anything in a hostile environment is going to transform into survival mode. So, the more mammograms you have over your lifetime, the higher your risk is of getting breast cancer.

And 20 to 30 percent of those times, the breast cancer will either be caused by the radiation or you will be overdiagnosed because there are some cancers that simply would not progress to become clinical disease. And the only cancers that require treatment are the ones that progress to become clinical disease.

And so many people believe that, that by doing mammogram and finding these things in their infancy, they're saving lives. And it's simply not true. And the industry very much wants you to believe that. But the data speaks otherwise and there is no survival advantage when we look at population studies and the Cochran report is not the only population study that found that. The Canadian breast cancer screening trial of 90,000 women found the same exact thing.

If you screen with mammogram or don't screen with mammogram, the same exact number of women are going to die of breast cancer. And the only difference is that you're going to diagnose 20 to 30 percent more cancers. Now, let me tell you what that means in terms of the reality of today. We have 4 million women in the U.S. right now living with breast cancer. 4 million women. If 20 percent of them were overdiagnosed, and that's on the low end, that's 800,000 women who never needed to be treated for breast cancer that were treated for breast cancer.

Here's the big problem with it. If breast cancer treatment were benign, it would be one thing. But breast cancer treatment is not benign. These women are never the same again. Never.

Sylvie Beljanski: They are damaged for life, yeah.

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Damaged for life. And you shorten the duration of their life with every breast cancer treatment, and you also diminish the quality of their life because when you're treated for breast cancer, those treatments accelerate heart disease, accelerate brain disease, accelerate bone loss, interfere with mood, interfere with sexuality, interfere with continence, cause weight gain, cause pain.

These things are not insignificant. These things really affect your quality of life. And when you say to a woman who has been treated for breast cancer, you should be grateful to be alive. And it's not that they're not grateful, but it's very hard to feel grateful when you have brain fog, when you have headaches, when you can't sleep, when you're anxious, when you're depressed, when you're having palpitations, when your bones hurt, your joints hurt, your muscles hurt, you've gained weight, you feel inflamed, your relationship is suffering, you're leaking urine. I mean, all of these things. You have no libido. Sex is painful. All of these things. make it really hard to feel grateful. 

Alternative Screening Methods

Sylvie Beljanski: So what should we do? I mean, what are the alternatives?

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, so if you're asking me how I screen for breast cancer I recommend three things.

The first thing is I really think that everyone should be doing self breast examination. I think no one is ever going to know you better than you know yourself. I have a little secret. Every single woman thinks her breasts are lumpy. So, don't let your lumpy breasts stop you from examining yourself on your lumps. Own your lumps. Know what you feel like when it's normal so that you can recognize it when something has changed. So, everyone should be doing self breast examination. If you are pre menopausal, it should be one week after your cycle starts. If you are post menopausal, if you're no longer getting your period, then just feel them on the first, first of the month, like when you pay your rent or your car or your whatever that you're doing on the first, also feel your breast. So that's one thing.

The second thing is there is an amazing test that uses your tears in order to determine your risk of having breast cancer. It's called the AURIA test, A U R I A. And all it is is a little litmus paper, a little piece of paper that you put in the corner, and it gets your tears attached to it and it screens for two proteins that are very abundant in your tears in the early stages of breast cancer. So, it's the S100A8 and S100A9 proteins. So, you put this little piece of paper in the corner, mail it back to the company.

Two weeks later, you get a risk assessment, low intermediate or high risk of having breast cancer. If you have an intermediate or high risk, go have imaging. You know, be more, be more careful with your exam. Go have a professional exam. But if you have a low risk of having breast cancer, that, that test is very sensitive.

And also you can use the results of that test if you don't have breast cancer to know that those are inflammatory markers. And so you know that you have increased inflammation and take this opportunity to find out where that inflammation is coming from and get rid of it. And the imaging exam that I'm using is called QT imaging and I opened the first independent imaging center on the East Coast that uses this imaging.

It's called perfeQTion imaging. That's the name of my imaging center. And there we are screening for breast cancer without pain, without compression or without radiation. So. by using sound waves that were transmitted through a water bath, we are able to collect 200,000 times more data points than MRI and create a true 3D reconstruction of the breast with 40 times the resolution of MRI.

So, in as little as 20 minutes, your breast goes for a swim and you essentially. get a true 3d reconstruction of the breast. It was invented for women with dense breast. So, it's very useful in that population where a mammogram is not useful in that population. And it is, it's very good for breast implants.

In the population of women where mammogram is really failing, QT is doing an excellent job and unlike MRI, which requires gadolinium, QT is able to do all of this 100 percent efficiently. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Well, I hope you are going to speak about this process and this new diagnosis tool at the conference because women are desperately in need of alternative to mammography.

Hormone Replacement Therapy

Sylvie Beljanski: Since you are a breast doctor, I mean, I don't want, cannot let you go before asking you questions about hormones, natural hormones not natural hormones. What is your take on that? 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, absolutely. So the thought, the understanding that estrogen causes breast cancer is logical and very understandable, and also just simply not true, right?

So, it is a convenient explanation that is given for the purposes of selling antiestrogen drugs, but the truth is that estrogen does not cause breast cancer. Estrogen is a group of compounds that are made by the ovary and the adrenal glands. And they are the hormones of life. And it's actually when we start to lose our estrogen in the perimenopausal and menopausal period that we see rapid decline in, in our health.

And I am very much in favor of bio-identical hormone replacement, and I think that we should be using it far more judiciously than we are, and when I say that, I don't mean we should be giving people a lot of hormone replacement, I mean we should be giving more people hormone replacement, including those that have had a history of breast cancer because they are people too, and they don't deserve to suffer.

And so, I think that we all need to understand why we're in favor of hormone replacement, and that's because when you no longer have adequate levels of circulating estrogen and progesterone and testosterone and DHEA, you undergo rapid brain decline and your chances of dementia and Alzheimer's are exponentially increased.

You undergo rapid decline of your cardiovascular health. And so, heart disease becomes, the instance becomes the same as men after menopause because you lose the protection of estrogen. Weight gain becomes a big problem, especially around the abdomen and that kind of weight gain is very inflammatory and yeah, that's my dog.

We undergo rapid bone loss and something that we all need to be aware of is as many women die every year as a complication of a fracture as do of breast cancer. So, our bone health is tremendously important and without hormone replacement, all of these major systems, you know, I could argue that sleep is pretty major and that is severely affected after menopause.

Your gender, your urinary system is, is really affected. And so the reason that we give women hormone replacement after menopause is to keep them out of wheelchairs, out of nursing homes, and out of adult diapers. And these are really important reasons. We are not trying to prolong fertility. We are not trying to bring back menstruation. We are not trying to mimic pre menstrual hormone levels or pre menopausal hormone levels.

We are keeping women out of wheelchairs, out of nursing homes and out of adult diapers. And I think that everyone deserves that dignity. 

Sylvie Beljanski: What would you say to women who go through menopause, eventually take hormone replacement therapy, but after a few years, feel that they are, I mean, tired of taking those hormones, and feel some kind of estrogen toxicity? If that's something that resonates with you.

Dr. Jenn Simmons: I think that hormone replacement is practiced by a lot of people who are not knowledgeable enough and that you should be working with a hormone-literate provider who is monitoring your hormones. For my practice, I use the menopause method made famous by Dr. David Rosensweet and my women who are on hormone replacement, first of all, they're taking a monthly break because I think it's not physiologic to not give people a monthly break. We all have a monthly break when we're premenopausal. Why shouldn't we have a monthly break when we're post menopausal? And I'm also monitoring their hormone levels.

I'm not letting my people be hormone-toxic. And so we are, we are monitoring, we are making sure that you are getting enough so that you're not undergoing tissue damage, but not so much that you're toxic because estrogen toxicity and hormone toxicity is, is very real and prevalent if you are not being dosed correctly, not being treated correctly and not being monitored correctly.

And. you know, one of the biggest examples are people who have pellets put in. So, almost all those people who have pellets put in are super therapeutic. And we are not looking for people to be running around in hormone euphoria, because we know ultimately that that is dangerous. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Absolutely. And can, and can eventually lead to cancer.

Yes, that's correct. That is the beginning of our conversation. 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: That is correct. So, without question, this can be done safely, but it has to be done properly. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Excellent. So a good way for diagnosis, a safe way for diagnosis, and a safe way to keep your hormone level decent, and where it should be for a long time.

How many years do you suggest a woman should stay on some kind of hormonal treatment, replacement? 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: I think it's forever. Forever. And for as long as you're enjoying good health and want to continue to enjoy good health, I keep people on hormone replacement. And for the reasons that we started to talk about, because you don't want people to have osteoporosis and you don't want people to be incontinent and you want people to maintain their cognitive function.

And that comes when you continue to replace the hormones that allow for these processes to be protected. So, for me, it is indefinite. And I think it's really important. I think that it is a long past time to unlearn all of the conclusions of the women's health initiative because they were so, so, so damaging.

And there were decades of physicians who were ill informed and, and really did not practice good medicine as a result. And millions and millions of women who suffered as a result. And you know, this is not only a, a female thing. Andropause, which is what happens to men is a real thing as well. And so, you know, just like we want to make sure that we're replacing estrogen and progesterone and testosterone and DHEA in women, we also want to make sure that we're replacing in men as well, because even though they don't fall off a cliff like a woman does with their hormones, they have a slower decline, they will get to a point where they do have osteoporosis, where they do have problems with continence and we want, and where they do have problems with with cognitive. So, we want to make sure that everyone has the ability to live a long and healthy life.

And our goal for everyone is to live. as long as possible, as well as possible, and die young, right? That is all of our goals, to live as long as possible and die young. 

Conclusion

Sylvie Beljanski: That's a good premise. Dr. Jen, when can people find you to put to in realities as programs that you are suggesting?, 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, absolutely. So, my medical practice is called RealHealthMD. So, you can find me at realhealthmd.com. I'm on all the social media channels at Dr. Jen Simmons, D R J E N N. My Jen has two N's. I have a YouTube channel, Dr. Jen Simmons. I have a podcast every week. It's called Keeping Abreast with Dr. Jenn.

And if you're interested in that imaging, that breast cancer screening that I was talking about, it's called perfeQTion imaging, and perfection is spelled with a QT in the middle. 

Victor Dwyer: That's awesome.

Sylvie Beljanski: Very good.

Victor Dwyer: Yeah. Thank you so much, Dr. Jenn, for joining us. 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: My pleasure.

Sylvie Beljanski: And we look very much forward to listening to your presentation at The Beljanski Integrative Conference in Texas, in Austin, Texas, April 25 to 27. 

Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yep. I'm very much looking forward to being there. 

Sylvie Beljanski: Thank you. 

Victor Dwyer: Thank you. Thank you.